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Post by ian on May 18, 2010 13:41:29 GMT
Ok, so I've been banging on about that I think £10.99 is too expensive for a new paperback on here and on the FB group. I'm sorry about that, I really am. Of course, before I opened my big gob (I do that a lot) Perhaps, I should have looked into it a little bit better. So I did. This is what I found after a few minutes of googling. Buying a book binding machine plus book printer? Forgot it, way out of my league in terms of cost so the next option was getting someone to do it for me. I found these guys. www.instantpublisher.com/It seems that there are dozens of companyies that specialise in this. Before I went further, I needed to see how relieble they were and if the quality of their print was good enough for my needs. answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080803165855AAC4VwAWell for this experiment, that review will do. Ok, Now I need someone to sned me a book they want publishing, er right, pretend that's done. Let's see. 200 pages, 300 copies, Book size 5.5 by 8.5 inches, 60 gsm smooth white paper Customer full colour design cover (gloss cover) ISBN barcode. Total $1158 in normal money that's - £788.61 or £2.62 per book. Does anyone have any questions? (I know this is like some sort of ladybird book of pretend publishing but, like I said, it's just an experiment)
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Post by steppedonwolf on May 18, 2010 14:06:33 GMT
Ok, so I've been banging on about that I think £10.99 is too expensive for a new paperback on here and on the FB group. I'm sorry about that, I really am. Of course, before I opened my big gob (I do that a lot) Perhaps, I should have looked into it a little bit better. So I did. This is what I found after a few minutes of googling. Buying a book binding machine plus book printer? Forgot it, way out of my league in terms of cost so the next option was getting someone to do it for me. I found these guys. www.instantpublisher.com/It seems that there are dozens of companyies that specialise in this. Before I went further, I needed to see how relieble they were and if the quality of their print was good enough for my needs. answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080803165855AAC4VwAWell for this experiment, that review will do. Ok, Now I need someone to sned me a book they want publishing, er right, pretend that's done. Let's see. 200 pages, 300 copies, Book size 5.5 by 8.5 inches, 60 gsm smooth white paper Customer full colour design cover (gloss cover) ISBN barcode. Total $1158 in normal money that's - £788.61 or £2.62 per book. Does anyone have any questions? (I know this is like some sort of ladybird book of pretend publishing but, like I said, it's just an experiment) The self-pub bit isn't the hardest (or most expensive) part. It's the distribution and marketing, and that's what always put me off going down that route. Yep, you can promote the book on your website and various message boards, but getting them into the shops is a different matter. The chains tend to shy away from self-pubbed books, and Amazon take a hefty slice as well. Aswang? Well, time will tell if they used the model Ian's shown above, or went POD - in which case they'd only get a certain discount for buying X amount of copies in bulk...
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Post by ian on May 18, 2010 14:27:45 GMT
I wasn't suggesting that it was a self publishing venture Ade. I wasn't just showing how it may be possible for a new publishing company could shave a few pence off a hefty price tag.
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Post by steppedonwolf on May 18, 2010 14:29:22 GMT
I wasn't suggesting that it was a self publishing venture Ade. I wasn't just showing how it may be possible for a new publishing company could shave a few pence off a hefty price tag. Sorry. Had a coupla pints at lunchtime...
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Post by ian on May 18, 2010 14:30:15 GMT
Where's mine then?
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Post by Dreadlocksmile on May 18, 2010 14:38:44 GMT
Excellent post/thread from Ian here. And raises a few very good points.
I've emailed the guys at Aswang regarding the BHN forum, so hopefully they pay the forum a visit and fill in a few details for us.
I'd be very interested to hear from Shaun regarding what he knows about the costs per book. Ian's post/research was a bit of an eye opener for me to be honest!
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Post by ian on May 18, 2010 14:44:10 GMT
Of course, if you had office rent to pay and wages for editors, artists etc plus all the other gumf that goes with starting up a new business then the price would rocket up.
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Post by shaun on May 18, 2010 15:03:47 GMT
I'd be very interested to hear from Shaun regarding what he knows about the costs per book. Ian's post/research was a bit of an eye opener for me to be honest! I don't know much about costs per book. All I know is that the publisher of The Kult printed 3,000 copies to bring the unit price down. Obviously the more you have printed using an offset printer, the cheaper the unit cost. But as someone else mentioned, it doesn't matter how much the books cost if you can't sell them, which is down to distribution. There are thousands of authors trying to sell books, and we're all competing for the same markets. More sales are generated through bookshops where people are more likely to see books while browsing. Coming across a book 'by accident' on the web is a lot harder. That's why authors promote widely on message boards etc, especially small press authors who don't have the advantage of having their books on shelves. The internet is our bookshop - but it's also the bookshop for thousands upon thousands of others. That's what makes it so hard. In that respect, I feel that someone might be more inclined to splash out on a book by an unknown author if that book's a little cheaper.
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Post by shaun on May 18, 2010 17:42:15 GMT
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Post by steppedonwolf on May 18, 2010 19:57:12 GMT
Here y'go:
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Post by steppedonwolf on May 18, 2010 20:18:43 GMT
Very good, Shaun. I particularly like this line: "There are still myriad ways a traditional publisher can help a new author that would be lost by simply throwing a book up on Amazon. You lose the benefit of a real editor. You lose any money spent on advertising, promotion, co-op to get the book in front of readers. And unless you already have a platform--something most newbies do not--your books have no way of getting noticed. There are thousands of self-published books on Amazon - you're basically asking readers to look for a needle in a haystack made of needles." Have a karma.
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Post by shaun on May 18, 2010 21:49:19 GMT
There are thousands of self-published books on Amazon - you're basically asking readers to look for a needle in a haystack made of needles. That line sums up how difficult it is, and tallies with my earlier comment
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Post by ian on May 21, 2010 21:38:18 GMT
The link I supplied was for an American company. The following is a quote from a British printers.
BOOK QUOTATION
11-13 Philip Road, Ipswich Suffolk, IP2 8BH T: 01473 400162 F: 01473 400163 W: think-ink.co.uk
Date:21st May 2010 Quote No:6522 PLEASE PUT QUOTE NO. ON ALL Email:flat****rs_dw@hotmail.com CORRESPONDENCE Tel:
Thank you for asking Think Ink to quote on the production of your books. We have pleasure in submitting our estimate as follows.
Book/ paper type : Fictional: 100gsm off white
Total No of pages/sides: 200
No of colour pages: 0
Book Size: Pocket (110 x 175mm)
Origination: Your artwork supplied as print ready pdf
Proof: No proof required
Binding: Perfectbound long edge (portrait)
Spine depth: 12.8mm
Cover weight & finish: 300gsm full colour matt laminated
Quantity 1 Quantity 2 Quantity 3
No of Books 100 Proof/artwork £ 2 Delivery £ 17 Price per book£ 2.54
TO GET TOTAL PRICE PLEASE MULTIPLY THE £/BOOK BY THE QTY AND ADD THE DELIVERY AND PROOF CHARGES
Please note books are zero rated for VAT ISBN Numbers are available from the ISBN Agency T: 0870 777 8712 We can provide a barcode for your ISBN Number at a cost of £12.00
--------------- So that works out at £2.85 per book.
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Post by rakie on May 28, 2010 15:59:28 GMT
like the other guys say tho, that's not the half of it. Someone told me that Amazon takes 60% of the cover value (that might not be true, just what i heard), and "proper" stores like Ottakers take even more. Plus the publisher maybe has to pay a little something to the author... Yes, books should be cheaper. There's no way you'll catch me arguing against that. I kick up a fuss in my local bookshop every time i have to pay more than seven quid for a paperback. ;D But i get the feeling we sometimes have to cut some slack to the small presses, because they can't afford to throw money at projects to bring the unit price down. That 800 quid in your first quote is a lot of dough, especially if you're not certain you can shift 300 copies and recoop your outlay. :/ in general tho, i sometimes wish people (including small presses) would grasp the idea that, often, knocking a few quid off the price tag will equal far more sales, and far more happier readers.
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Post by steppedonwolf on May 28, 2010 19:53:47 GMT
like the other guys say tho, that's not the half of it. Someone told me that Amazon takes 60% of the cover value (that might not be true, just what i heard), and "proper" stores like Ottakers take even more. Plus the publisher maybe has to pay a little something to the author... Yes, books should be cheaper. There's no way you'll catch me arguing against that. I kick up a fuss in my local bookshop every time i have to pay more than seven quid for a paperback. ;D But i get the feeling we sometimes have to cut some slack to the small presses, because they can't afford to throw money at projects to bring the unit price down. That 800 quid in your first quote is a lot of dough, especially if you're not certain you can shift 300 copies and recoop your outlay. :/ in general tho, i sometimes wish people (including small presses) would grasp the idea that, often, knocking a few quid off the price tag will equal far more sales, and far more happier readers. Small press books are generally more expensive, but I don't mind paying the extra because I know that I'm getting a quality story that the major publishers are reluctant to supply me. And I know that it'll support the new author and hopefully boost their career. However. The mark of a quality small press is one that not only supplies the story, but presents it as professionally as possible. I've just finished Guy N Smith's Nightspawn, published by Aswang Press, and while I enjoyed the story I'm extremely disappointed by the quality. Yes, the cover's great. Yes, the book's properly bound. But... The formatting issue I've raised before, but I'm going to say it again. Not just line spacing to mark a new paragraph rather than an indent, but the text isn't even justified! And the typos...Jesus. You'll always get some, but this is over the top. 'Cheap' is spelled 'cheep' not once but three times. And that's just one example. Aswang are playing it coy. Fair enough, a bit of mystery will get people talking and create a buzz. But if they want to be taken seriously as a publisher they'd better raise their game. Their only post here was defending the price tag and talking about this being a collector's item. I'm sorry, but that's just taking the piss. Guy N Smith, us fans - and any new authors Aswang are thinking of taking on - deserve better.
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